"XJDano" (xjdano)
07/20/2018 at 11:13 • Filed to: None
3
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"XJDano" (xjdano)
07/20/2018 at 11:13 • Filed to: None | 3
| 41 |
Sad story. I’ve always wanted to go on these, but they’ll likely be shut down now.
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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
AestheticsInMotion
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:25 |
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There were quite a few deadly accidents with these in Seattle over the last few years as well. I'm surprised people are still willing to get on them...
HammerheadFistpunch
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:25 |
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something I don’t think a lot of people appreciate about consumer products - military vehicles are dangerous as shit...they exist to do a job for the lowest price a contractor and his buddies in manufacturing can think to get away with and very little consideration is given to operator safety.
I mean...no one built the duckies with passenger safety in mind outside of “hope those boys make it to the beach in one piece”
Ash78, voting early and often
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:25 |
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Very, very sad. This hit me on a personal level because we’ve been to three places already this year where Duck Boat rides were offered. I always adamantly refuse. My kids can ride rollercoasters all day long if they want.
I’ve always been sketched out by these based on some of the previous accidents. I know this one was a sudden storm with microbursts and big waves. I’ve lived most of my life in places where severe weather can pop up with little warning. I can’t help but feel they were just cutting it a little too close...tourist lines pile up, people get irritated, and the tour operators feel a lot of pressure to keep the lines moving. I know this is premature judgment, but in a place like Branson in July, it’s inevitable.
MoCamino
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:26 |
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As fun as these things look, there have been far too many incidents. I doubt the “captains” get sufficient training to deal with severe weather.
K-Roll-PorscheTamer
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:29 |
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When I went Boston for a an Orchestra trip freshman year of high school, duck tours were part of the trip and I enjoyed the heck outa it! I hope they don’t get banned everywhere.
Has it been determined why it capsized and sank yet?
Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
> K-Roll-PorscheTamer
07/20/2018 at 11:32 |
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the weather, a microburst hit the lake carrying 63 mph winds and tall waves
ttyymmnn
> K-Roll-PorscheTamer
07/20/2018 at 11:32 |
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I think it got swamped and capsized/sank.
Takuro Spirit
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:32 |
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One does not simply visit Wisconsin Dells and not ‘Ride The Ducks’.
But yeah, with severe weather on the way and on a big open lake, you might want to postpone that ride.
Shame they let the tours continue.
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XJDano
> K-Roll-PorscheTamer
07/20/2018 at 11:36 |
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There was a pop up storm and probably overwhelmed the truck-boat.
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Ash78, voting early and often
> HammerheadFistpunch
07/20/2018 at 11:38 |
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I started my post like this, but edited it...very true. Most WWII hardware, without extremely fastidious maintenance and repair, is going to fall apart because that’s what it was designed to do — a short-term job.
I have always forbidden my kids from riding on these because they’re just not that stable in the first place, let alone in extreme weather.
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ttyymmnn
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:38 |
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We rode one in DC a few years ago. But it was a beautiful day, we stayed close to the shore, and had a good time.
I have a few questions that will likely come out in the course of the investigation. W
hen things started getting dodgy, did they pass
out the life jackets?
Despite the wind and rain, did they open the blinds or windows so people could evacuate if they had to? It’s my understanding that most of the people who have died in these were trapped under the awning/roof. If that’s a picture of the boat that sank, it looks like a death trap.
Was the crew (the duck we rode had only a driver) trained for this eventuality?
I doubt this will be the end of these sorts of tours. But I imagine there will be some serious federal scrutiny. Or at least, I hope there will be .
Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
> HammerheadFistpunch
07/20/2018 at 11:39 |
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something I don’t think a lot of people appreciate about consumer products - military vehicles are dangerous as shit...
Truth.
I worked as a contractor for a contractor for a contractor for a contractor for the Navy, doing the factory acceptance testing on the high voltage switchgear going into a new ship.
The design was so incredibly unsafe.
Never mind that there were inherent design flaws, such as the ability to close an emergency ground system onto an active generator, we were informed that un- insulated conductors (not unusual) of this high voltage, high incident energy system, would be located directly under a bunch of bunks. Like... less than four feet from humans.
Good news is with the arc flash rating of this system, if something went wrong the guys sleeping there would likely be vaporized and wouldn’t feel a thing...
When presented with these findings, the contractors’ position was they were already over budget and the design met the specifications as written... so not their problem.
vondon302
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:40 |
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My Dad served in WW 2 in the Philippines. Yeah I'm old but not as old as ya think they had me late. He used to say these were the most dangerous difficult to use vehicle he's ever driven. Does a lot of things none of them well. If I remember correctly he personally sank one and seen 5 others go down but they were the shorter version. I should get his journal out tonight.
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XJDano
> ttyymmnn
07/20/2018 at 11:42 |
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The Stlouis news is blowing up over this. And some of the other headlines are one duck got out and the other as they were heading to shore capsized. The captain survived, there were about 30 people on board.
News keeps coming out about the details.
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XJDano
> vondon302
07/20/2018 at 11:44 |
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The picture I grabbed from a tourist site I think it looks like these are the shorter ones vs the other photos others have posted from around the country.
Sovande
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:44 |
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Ve ry sad story. The video is nuts. The wind is so strong the boats can barely even make headway and the waves are washing right over the bow of the boat.
I am hoping this gets them banned in DC. I was towing a guy who was broken down into my marina the other day and the duck boat operator decided he didn’t need to wait for us to finish getting the guy into his slip before he launched. I had to put my boat hard into reverse, which knocked a woman on the boat I was side towing down, which lead to me screaming at the operator. He looked at me, shrugged and said “you should have waited til I was out of the way.” It was an example of how poorly trained these guys tend to be.
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ttyymmnn
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:45 |
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There were two Ducks in the water. One made it back, the other didn’t. This photo was taken from shore of the boat that made it . That thing is really low in the water.
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ttyymmnn
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:48 |
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There is video. It cuts off right before the boat turtles. So there is definitely video of the actual sinking.
davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
07/20/2018 at 11:50 |
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Shit...
punkgoose17
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:52 |
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The windows on that thing are giving me feelings of drowning
panic and
claustrophobia.
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davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:57 |
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My wife told me about it this morning. We were just in Branson for a family reunion last summer. Saw these boats around, but didn’t ride them. Terribly sad... I wonder how many of the dead are kids...
WilliamsSW
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 11:59 |
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That’s awful. So sad.
facw
> ttyymmnn
07/20/2018 at 12:04 |
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Yeah, I don’t think I’d ever be interested in going on one of these with a roof, let alone closed windows. Way too easy to get trapped if there is a problem (especially when full of panicking people as well). Of course swimming around in water rough enough to capsize one of these is probably not great either, but I’d definitely take it over being trapped.
Mercedes Streeter
> Takuro Spirit
07/20/2018 at 12:05 |
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At least the ones in the Dells are open. When stuff hits the fan you can grab a life jacket and just hop out. That thing had windows and I bet they didn’t have any quick way of releasing them. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the deaths are people who were sitting in the middle. :(
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vondon302
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 12:09 |
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Yeah your right.
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ttyymmnn
> facw
07/20/2018 at 12:15 |
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There’s video of the duck , which I posted in this thread. It cuts off before the actual capsize. It’s terrifying, especially since I have an extreme fear of drowning.
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Takuro Spirit
> Mercedes Streeter
07/20/2018 at 12:15 |
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There was ZERO discussion about using life vests if needed, which was surprising. You’d think there would have been a few seconds dedicated to some What-If scenarios .
Yeah the enclosed ducks they seem to be running down there might have posed a bit more danger. People might have put life vests on, but had been incapable of getting clear of the boat when it went down.
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ttyymmnn
> Takuro Spirit
07/20/2018 at 12:19 |
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There was ZERO discussion about using life vests if needed, which was surprising. You’d think there would have been a few seconds dedicated to some What-If scenarios.
I thought that was a matter of federal law, sort of like the talk before taking off in an airliner. I have never been on any charter-type boat when there wasn’t at least some discussion of where the vests were stored, and I do know that federal law requires one vest for every passenger. Looking at pictures and video of those Branson ducks, they were almost completely enclosed. Complete death trap.
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Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
> ttyymmnn
07/20/2018 at 12:23 |
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the ones in the wisconsin dells, while equally deathtrap-y, are fairly decent cause they stay to the river thats pretty shallow and that runs through a canyon so there really isnt a threat of highspeed winds.
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ttyymmnn
> Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
07/20/2018 at 12:27 |
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And our duck only went on the Potomac. As Hammerhead pointed out, these things were never designed for pleasure cruises on open water.
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Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
> Takuro Spirit
07/20/2018 at 12:29 |
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the dells river ducks operate in much shallower water which puts me at ease. i dont think id ever do a table rock lake duck but the next time we go to the dells i wouldnt have any worry of putting my family on one
415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> ttyymmnn
07/20/2018 at 12:33 |
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Huh, I would never have thought that, we have them in Honolulu, never heard of any issues. I’ve always wanted one. They seem so bottom heavy to me is why I would not have guessed it. If it had a sun shade like that it could have acted like a sail and blew it over. I mean the military never had the shade.
ranwhenparked
> HammerheadFistpunch
07/20/2018 at 12:50 |
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Although, most of the duck boats operating for tours right now are more modern reproductions, custom fabricated for the tour operators. Some of them are still WWII originals, but they’ve been rebuilt, modified, and re- engined numerous times.
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ranwhenparked
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 12:52 |
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I’m shocked that they were even able to restart operations after the Philadelphia accident back in 2010; though, I guess, there’s several different companies that operate them, so if one went under, it wouldn’t necessarily affect the whole industry. But, man, the blowup over that one was massive.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> ranwhenparked
07/20/2018 at 13:09 |
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an unsafe design is still an unsafe rebuilt design.
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ranwhenparked
> HammerheadFistpunch
07/20/2018 at 13:12 |
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On the other hand, these Duck Tours have been operating in different cities for 72 years, with only a relatively small number of non-traffic related incidents, considering how frequently the run, how many of them there are, and how many passengers they carry. And most of the really serious incidents have been with modern designs only loosely related to the WWII originals.
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Mercedes Streeter
> Takuro Spirit
07/20/2018 at 14:00 |
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There was ZERO discussion about using life vests if needed, which was surprising. You’d think there would have been a few seconds dedicated to some What-If scenarios
.
You’d certainly think so...that’s depressing.
This reminds me of that recent helicopter crash. Things probably went south extremely quickly. I can’t imagine a duck will sink slowly; those people probably had all of a handful of seconds get figure out an escape. :(
leicester
> XJDano
07/20/2018 at 14:09 |
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They are a tourist fixture in Seattle, as well.
They had a fatality road accident in 2015 , where one crossed a center lane after a mechanical failure and struck a tourist bus. https://www.seattletimes.com/category/ride-the-ducks/ .
M aintenance lapses were listed, and the tours currently run with a driver and separate tour guide (Formerly was a solo) .
Anyway, thoughts go out to those in Branson.
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ttyymmnn
> HammerheadFistpunch
07/26/2018 at 08:31 |
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HammerheadFistpunch
> ttyymmnn
07/26/2018 at 10:33 |
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Seems premature to infer blame just because he modified a design and had no formal training. Lots of really good engineering comes from self taught people. Im n ot saying it isn’t a cause but I think it’s reckless to publish a story like this without at least some credible suspicion that the design led to failure. It may have contributed certainly but write that story when they know.
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ttyymmnn
> HammerheadFistpunch
07/26/2018 at 10:48 |
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It sounded to me like the WaPo found one thing--the fact that the guy had no formal engineering training--and wrung a few hundred words out of that to write an article. I think it would be worth investigating whether or not stretching the duck disturbed its COG or changed its seaworthiness in any way. The guy who did the work would have no way of knowing, and perhaps that’s the point of the story. Also, the fact that they captain said they didn’t need life jackets is appalling.